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Eruch: "Is it true that the scientists say that there is nothing like matter and that all is energy?"
Vinoo: "This is not so. Matter and energy are inter-convertible. Matter and anti-matter create energy when they come together."
Baba: “In the November Gathering (1962) I have explained about the Four journeys.* They are journeys within. There are also outer journeys. The Creation is based on gas, and gas is nothing; and Nothing Is. Mind is the junction between the inner and the outer journeys. There are two outlets, the inner and the outer. The outer (Creation) is nothing but the shadow of Reality. Just as your shadow is because of you, so the Creation is because of Reality. Mind is that which gives substance to matter and energy. If you do the outer journeys, there are infinitely vast fields in space which contain millions of universes with innumerable suns. There are 18,000 worlds in Creation with human habitation. I have explained more of this at Meherazad to Francis and Eruch.
"Scientists will someday have to come to agreement among themselves that there are innumerable expanding and contracting, evolving and dissolving universes. Just as according to varying conditions, a shadow is sometimes bigger and sometimes smaller, so it is with the galaxies. How can the mind imagine the 'limitlessness of Creation? It cannot. Why not? It is because we try to understand with mind than which is beyond the mind. Mind and energy are absolutely nothing. Hence all these universes which the scientists find so astounding are also nothing.
Now, on the other side of the mind, the 'inner side,' there is shorelessness. You cannot pinpoint anything or any direction in it. No universes, no galaxies! Then what is there? Who is there in your sound sleep? Nobody. Only the 'Isness' is there. It all means that the Goal is to be fully awake in sound sleep! Which is impossible without my Grace."
Vinoo: "Baba, what is mind?"
Baba: "My health is not well and it has been a good time since this discussion has been going on; now to explain what is mind, hours and hours will not be sufficient. It is good that you think more deeply on what I have already explained. However, there is such a thing as mind. It is different from matter. In your sound sleep, if at all there is anything, there
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